You are a member of the devolution of power committee, so what is the Niger Delta position on resource control?
The Niger Delta position is actually the Nigerian position, as far as I am concerned. If we had done the right thing many states today would have been rich in natural resources. Therefore, if today we are sitting down as Nigerians to discuss resource control, it will not be only to discuss Niger Delta or oil and gas. It will include if diamond if found in Zamfara for instance. I am just hypothetically saying this. But we are doing all this now because of lack of commitment by the different governments of Nigeria, whether it is a civilian government or the military, it does not matter. Whether the president is a northerner or a southerner, it doesn’t matter. If we had done the right thing, we won’t be focusing on the Niger Delta talking about resource control.
What we are telling the federal government is, you can’t come here today and take what you like and leave what you don’t like or the majority of what we have and give us the little that we don’t have. So for me, the issue of resource control is not just Niger Delta.
Niger Delta did not start agitation for resource control, the issue of who owns our land didn’t start now; it started in the 1960s, even before the Nigerian civil war. Isaac Adaka Boro was the first to carry arms against the Nigerian government and declared United Niger Delta Republic, because of the injustice of the oil companies immediately after the civil war. The issue of the Niger Delta people agitation against any federal government and the issue of oil companies has been there a long time and it would be unfair to us to make it seem that it just started because today we have a president that is from Niger Delta. The president himself is a victim, just as I am and just as the rest of the Niger Delta people are on the issue of neglect of the Niger Delta region.
In essence, are you talking about 100 percent ownership of oil revenue?
Yes, I don’t know why that is difficult to accept. Look, in America, in England, people pay tax. So whether it is oil or you are selling wheat, when you sell it, you have to pay tax to the government of that country because you are in that country and you owed a government a percentage of that money you are making. Is it possible that a farmer for instance that can grow wheat and then sell it; owns only 13 percent? That is not possible. Why do we want it to be like that? People are saying that natural resource is God given, yes, it is God given. But I am on that land, if for instance there is a poison on the land, not oil, will people claim ownership? If it is killing people, will people claim it? But because it is making money that is why people want to claim it? Enough is enough. It is wrong from the beginning that we have a constitution that swept away what belongs to people, by making it a government property. What we saying is that it is not fair. And I am surprised today in Nigeria that there are people that can look at that blatantly and say it is right. What if it were them? Will they still say it is right?
The Lamido of Adamawa Alhaji Muhammadu Barkindo Mustapha said oil producing states should own their resources and non-oil producing states, like the FCT should equally own their land resources and charge whatever rate they want. Do you agree with him?
(Cuts in) Of course it is basically the same thing. What if tomorrow on that land or on this FCT land for instance you all of a sudden find diamond or gold? It is the federal government that will be claiming it? Because this land currently belongs to the federal government. This FCT belongs to federal government. But there are original owners of this place. They are the people that the federal government met and they have been resettled or whatever. If those things are found, federal government will claim it, and this is what we are resisting that is wrong.
On the issue on agreeing with the Niger Delta, that the region should be allowed to own 100 percent whatever they are producing and others should also own their land, I don’t think there is any argument here. The man in Enugu, in Ebonyi, in Osun owns their lands. It is okay if what he is saying is that when somebody who is not from the North is now living and working in the North and for instance builds a house in the North or builds a shop and for him to build a house, he would have to buy the land for him to build. But if he is saying that apart from that person paying tax to government to run his business at the end of the year, he would also now have to pay another tax because he is on that land, well, I am not there, but I won’t pay tax twice.
If you place restriction on the usage of the land, for instance, it cannot be restricted to the North, because it will be law, it has to apply in Rivers State for instance.
Anybody that buys a piece of land or is selling second hand cars, or changing money on the black market for instance, after paying everything, you also have to pay tax just for being there. I have no qualms with that once we agree that would work for Nigeria.
What the monarch seemed to be saying is that in the case of the FCT, the land should be reverted to the Gwari for instance; they should decide what to do with it...
I agree with that. If that it is I even support it. It is a matter of choice, because I support the Gwari people. I support them for what they have had to, I think what has happened to them is an injustice. This is because I am a human rights activist and we all know the story of how they were moved and a lot of activists both in and outside of Nigeria that they have not been properly compensated and to move a people in that manner that they were moved for the sake of Nigeria to have a capital here, I think that no matter the amount of compensation that would be paid to them, it will not be too much, because this Abuja is their ancestral and they are the only people of Nigeria today that have been forced to give up their ancestral homes for the sake of Nigeria. What if Nigeria doesn’t stay together, then the capital, Abuja is it of any consequence anymore to the 36 states? If Nigeria breaks up, the sacrifice the people of Abuja made would have been wasted. But then on the other hand, everything that is standing in Abuja today will belong to them, even though I may add that there is hardly any structure in Abuja today that was not built by the resources from the Niger Delta.
When Niger Delta people first came to Abuja they lived with a broken hearts, knowing that what we see today in Abuja came from the region. You cannot compare one road in the whole Niger Delta to just one road in Abuja, not to talk of the extension that is being done in Abuja. These are the things we are hoping that Nigerians would be able to sit down and talk.
But the Niger Delta states have 13 percent derivation money; they have the NDDC, amnesty programme and a whole ministry. Are you not considering holding governors and other people entrusted with these monies accountable?
That becomes offensive from the angle it is coming from. It becomes offensive because federal government is taking 87 percent of what we are getting. Now, people talk of ministry of Niger Delta for example. Let’s not forget, when was the ministry of Niger Delta achieved? Just few years ago! The ministry is based in Abuja, not in the Niger Delta. The ministry is treated as any other ministry in Nigeria, like the ministry of works for example, where federal character is considered in the employment of the people that would work there. There is no way you are going to tell me that a ministry is for my region and the people who are taking decision in my region are based in Abuja. The directors, the secretaries and the minister for state do not come from the Niger Delta. How can he know about what is happening in the Niger Delta; how can he know the different local governments that works should go to the local governments? The ministry of Niger Delta, as I see it today is of no value to the Niger Delta people, because it has been unable to achieve its goals because of the type of bureaucracy that the government of Nigeria operates. The Niger Delta people are not meant to benefit from the ministry of Niger Delta.
NDDC has to come cap in hand to the National Assembly to get the budget approved. We know people would say it is not true, but we know it. When the MD will come with his files they look at the budget and before the budget is approved, the senators and the House of Reps members they share what they get because of the business. Look at the jobs that have been awarded and trace the owners of these companies through the CAC, you will know that the jobs that run into billions of naira don’t go to the people of Niger Delta. They go to people here in Abuja.
In our committee, people are saying if you are going to insist on resource control that the ministry of Niger Delta should go, amnesty should go. People don’t want to face the reality of what Nigeria is facing. All what we are saying is that: we want resource control. People think that we should be stripped naked and flogged.
But whatever it is, if we don’t face the reality today, it will come back and haunt us not too long from now.
The question that we have money is insulting. I have a document of the private ownership of oil companies, you will see the name of Danjuma, Alhaji Maidaribe who gets N20 billion per month. It was given to him by Sani Abacha in 1998. Obasanjo tried to take it back. Colonel Sani Bello, in-law of Abdusalami Abubakar, you look at the Muhammed Ndimi, he is an in-law to IBB, Alhaji Gambo, you look at Aminu Dantata, you look at Yinka Folawuyo, you look at so many. We have Sanusi Lamido’s cousin, Ado Bayero, you look at Atiku Intel, Yar’adua. Look at this, most of these names are from the North, yet these very people are the ones that are asking us what are we doing with the oil money, what our governors can we say, no matter how they mismanaged the resources of the Niger Delta. How many Niger Delta governors that have owned oil wells from what I read out to you? And so, when Niger Delta people see this, it aggravates them.
It is not the fault of the governors that these places are like that. The time the governors get money they have to bribe the people from which the money has to be delivered. These are realities. So by the time the 13 percent get to the Niger Delta is no longer 13 percent.
Some months back, Akwa Ibom acquired 76 oil wells from Cross River which made Cross River now as poor as Zamfara, Nasarawa or Yobe states. Nasarawa, Yobe and Zamfara states each receive between N2.5 to N3 billion per month as federal allocation, while Akwa Ibom is getting about N100 billion monthly. Is it not right to ask the governors getting N3 billion and N100 billion per month to account for the monies?
We must join hands if we are going to succeed in fighting corruption and mismanagement of funds. If we do not take out the issue of religion, culture, or the issue of region or state and just face the issue of corruption, if we do not that and then we itemise it by region and then compare for instance Bayelsa State has eight local governments. Now, Kano state has 44 local governments, I am not even interested in the number whether Kano has more or Bayelsa has less. For me, that is not even the discussion point. Now, the fact is that one state is able to cater for 44 local governments areas. For whatever reason, that one state is only able to cater for just eight local government areas. When Bayelsa gets eight for this thing, Kano gets 44 of the same thing, even when the amount shared actually is coming from Bayelsa State and not Kano. When you have that and you are not discussing it, then what you are concentrating on is 194 oil wells in Akwa Ibom state and there is none in Zamfara state. Unless if we are going to take the oil wells from Akwa Ibom State and take them to Zamfara and say they belong to Zamfara State. That is the way we are moving if we don’t fight for resource ownership. We are going to wake up one day and people will be telling us that Rivers state has 250 oil wells, you can only keep 50, we would share the other 200 because we are Nigerians, no. Let us be real. What is it in Nigeria that can generate revenue from North to South, East to West? What can generate revenue that we can use to build Nigeria as a nation, which we can use to develop ourselves in our different ways? I don’t think that is unreasonable. I think we are just used to the mismanagement in Nigeria. Let every state be allowed to explore. If there is nothing in Kaduna state, what of Jos, there are many things in Jos. The state that can develop because they have one thing to develop, let’s put them on one side, the states that cannot develop at the same pace either because they don’t want to develop, because there are states that don’t want to develop. Nigeria has to be governed in a way that people would have freedom. But we have caged our capacities.
What do the people want us to do? We can’t farm? Some of the governors are going away now: Odili has gone, Alameisiegha has gone, Ibori has gone, and they have all gone. Because you become the president or governors or senator for eight years, then you become the richest man. And you now say if we asking for justice that we should hold the governors responsible. Is it not this same Nigeria that says a governor cannot be touched because he has immunity?
How do you assess President Jonathan? Some are saying he convened this conference for tenure elongation…
Let me tell you this, if tomorrow, as a Niger Delta person, we have resource ownership, for the Niger Delta oil and gas and we have federalism, I want to tell you that I will be among the first person to tell Jonathan don’t run for the president. It is the presidency that everybody is fighting for today; people are being killed every day in Nigeria mercilessly to stop Jonathan from running in 2015. He has been told since 2011 not to try it, he tried it, he has been told not to in 2015. So, all the fiasco we are having in this country is to stop Jonathan. That’s it. If we get resource ownership, I want to tell you that I will be the first person to tell Jonathan not to run. He should come back home, because there is nothing anymore as far as we are concerned. I believe the president when he said that he has no personal interest.
Can northerners just start killing themselves just to heap the blame on Jonathan?
For power, people have done worse than this in Nigeria. That is it is up to us Nigerians and I said it earlier that I do not believe in what is happening that we would be complacent about what is happening, that we must continue to think that it would be restricted to the north. I am even surprised that nobody in the North is making effort to find (the girls). When Niger Delta was at the centre, people were being kidnapped, even though we understand the frustration, the reason that was being given, people like me made an effort to become a crusader that those people must be fished out. I hope you understand what I am saying. Strangers cannot come and live without us knowing. Strangers cannot know where the pipes are and know where the people to kidnap are. The man who does not know how to swim cannot do that at the creeks. Somebody who doesn’t know how to do the flying boat cannot be able to do these things. We thought that it was our people, our sons. So we went and settled. I grow up in the creeks, I speak the language, I went and searched. I understand why you are doing it, but this is not the way you should do it. We can’t continue like this, to be kidnapping people. You can’t compare the number of people that died in Niger Delta to what is happening now today in the North. I feel pity, I am a mother. And then when you look at the repercussion, instead of condemning the act, instead of condemning what is going on and say these people that are doing this things cannot buy AK 47 with their hands, where are they getting these guns from, who is giving it to them, it is not Niger Delta that are giving it to them but people that speak their own language, why are they giving them guns to kill their own people? It is their own people that they are killing. And this is why I said that it is to destabilize this government and to put the blame on this government. If not, why are doing all this?
Culled from Daily Trust
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