23 November, 2014

GOD FORBID! IF JONATHAN PAYS ME N1M A DAY, I’LL NOT WORK FOR HIM

The state of refineries in Nigeria, in spite of regular investment in its maintenance annually, is worrisome. What is your view on this?
Whenever I talk about the oil industry in Nigeria, my blood boils. This is not only because I am a former Petroleum Minister and an Ijaw man, and the fact that we have a lot of oil revenue in the ri
verine area, but because it is a national disgrace.
Why? All this talk about Nigeria diversifying for decades is a ruse. We are diversifying nothing. Oil still remains the jugular of the economy. Oil makes at least 80 per cent of our annual budget; oil makes at least 90 per cent of our foreign currency receipts. So, any government that is mismanaging the oil business in Nigeria is a useless government and has no right to be there. This is because the country depends on oil.
And I am ashamed that President Goodluck Jonathan should know better. I just saw in the paper yesterday that the Chairman of the National Planning Commission said that the fall in oil money would not affect Nigeria.That is the most stupid thing to say; very stupid. I said it was a stupid language and I stand by it. Such should not come from a member of the National Planning Commission, let alone its chairman. The oil industry has not been so badly managed in the history of Nigeria. It is the worst managed under Jonathan. And whatever I tell you, I stake my honour in it. In terms of veracity, you can verify whatever I say because I have documents for all I am saying.
When Gen. Abdulsalami Abubakar was in government, he talked about the miserable condition of our economy. In 1996, I made a study of the refineries, and I wrote an article titled: ‘The Sabotage Theory of the Nigerian Refineries: Breakdown.’ Vanguard published it and I still have a copy.
Every time they say the refineries had broken down, my study showed that the most vital aspect of the refineries broke down. So, I asked one of the officers in that industry whether there was an epidemic that was making the refineries to break down always. Not all the Nigerian refineries are working up to 40 per cent of their installed capacity. Not even 30 per cent.
And when I said that, I mean, many of these Nigerians are so lazy. I said if the refineries are breaking down, why can’t we repair them?
I don’t think it needs a lot of expertise, but in case you cannot repair it through the local manpower, at least the people who built it are there. Bring the companies; after all, there was not so much of a security challenge then. Assure them of security and it is just a simple thing and commonsensical. But they would not do that because they are gaining from it. People in government are gaining from the breakdown of refineries. And they have formed this unholy fraternity between the companies and the crooks in the system. Many of them glory in being called the ‘oil mafia’ as if it is a compliment.
The refineries can be repaired, but they know that if they repair them, they will not be able to import fuel. And that is why they have continued to import fuel at exaggerated prices with the so-called oil subsidy that does not exist. They are making millions and trillions of money at the expense of the common man in Nigeria. And I continue to say it today, tomorrow that may God punish all corrupt politicians in Nigeria; punish them; put them in hell fire because the poor people in Nigeria are suffering.
They say we have about 170 million people in Nigeria or 165 million. The President was not even sure of the figure. But in every country, in America, Britain and even Nigeria, the poor people are more in number than the rich people. God loves poor people so much He created so many of them. So, any government that is not taking care of the plight of the poor man is working against God and God will punish them. Now, the socalled petroleum subsidy does not exist.
I have been writing about it. Gani Fawehinmi said it does not exist; Gen. Mohammadu Buhari said it does not exist. I have written so many pamphlets about it. I had challenged Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala to come out and engage me in a public debate. Let them bring out the figure. To my calculation, petroleum should not cost more than N40 per litre. A professor of petroleum who was in this University of Ibadan is now in Texas. He wrote from Texas and said that a litre of petrol should not cost more than N35; yet the government is selling at N97.
This N97 is even absolutely a political figure because it was done by fiat. They never sat down to calculate it. But for the fact that the oil subsidy protest threatened Jonathan, you know their plan was to make a litre of oil N140 or thereabout. They just hurriedly reduced it to N97. That means that over N100 they were taking from us was illegal. There is no petroleum subsidy. Trillions of Naira have been stolen and they are still telling us we should be funding. Nigeria is the only country in the world that makes provision for corruption and fraud in its annual budget.
Every year, they budget about N1 trillion for oil subsidy.
What is your view on the instability of oil price in the global market?
The instability in the oil market in the world will affect us. I don’t care about the ignorant thing the chairman of the National Planning said. It is commonsense that Nigeria depends about 90 per cent on oil; over 80 per cent of annual budget is oil; about 95 per cent of foreign earning is from oil. The price has come down and you are saying that it will not affect you. To me, it is a stupid thing to say. It will affect us, and it is common sense. Your budget is based on oil price.
Every day, the BBC gives the oil price, and so I was amazed when the National Assembly and the Minister of Finance were debating it. You don’t have to debate oil price. If they put a high oil price in their budget, and if the oil price falls, how will it not affect the revenue?
During Buhari’s time, there was what they called low budget planning; low budget profile for oil price. For instance, if the market is calling for $80 per barrel, we have to put out budget price at least at about $10 less to cushion us up. Oil price is volatile. If we have any major crisis in the world, oil price will definitely go up. So, the fall in oil price should cause us concern.
And anybody managing the economy that doesn’t get that is a misfit. He or she must not only be a misfit but an enemy of the country. It must affect us. See, it is like getting a job and being paid N500 per month. I lost that job and got another where I am being paid N300 per month and I say that my living standard is still the same, and that I will not be affected. It is stupid.
Is the Petroleum Industry Bill a kind of panacea to this problem we are facing then?
Petroleum Industry Bill can be a panacea and can be a blessing if they manage it well. But right now in Nigeria, petroleum is a curse because of bad management. I have travelled the Black American and Gulf countries. If you see the way they manage their petroleum industry, you will marvel. A good example is Saudi Arabia which I visited many times because of a friend of mine. There, education is free, health is free. There are secondary school campuses like the university campuses. Another is Kuwait.
They manage their petroleum so much with foresight that every time they sell oil, they have an account for the Kuwaitis of the future. Every day they sell oil, they put some millions of their money in reserve for the Kuwaitis of the future. They were so rich that they bought up Dorchester, an Island of London. They manage their oil very well. And you see what is so interesting in their case: the oil there belongs to a royal family and not to the country. Oil in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates all belong to royal families. The royal families are so empathetic that they use the oil which is exclusively their own for the people.
There is a country in the Gulf where when someone marries and the wife is pregnant, they continue to invest in the unborn child. If they can do it there, why can’t we do it here? From Riyadh to Jeddah, they drove me at night one day and throughout the two-hour journey, it was light all through the highways. In some places, you even see light on the rocks. If they can do that, why can’t we do it here? It is because Nigeria is ruled by corrupt people and leaders who love themselves only.
The issue of corruption in Nigeria is now worrisome. How do you assess the way President Jonathan is handling it?
Corruption is the second name of Nigeria.
The surname of Nigeria is corruption. Various leaders had fought corruption but they didn’t win. Everybody knows that the major problem we have is corruption and the country cannot grow, cannot develop and cannot progress with corruption in its system. That is the paradox. Jonathan is afraid of corruption, so he cannot fight corruption. He does not even know the definition of corruption. The other day, he said there is a difference between corruption and stealing.
And he says he has a Ph.D. He cannot fight corruption since he doesn’t understand what it is really. The only person that can fight corruption in Nigeria is Buhari. We shall come to that later. Jonathan that allowed his petroleum minister to spend N12bn public fund for hiring plane? When I was a minister, you could not go anywhere but to take transport and when you were travelling, if Nigeria Airways covers where you were going, you must go with Nigeria Airways.
I have worked Olusegun Obasanjo; I worked with Buhari; I worked with Gen. Ibrahim Babangida and I have seen that it is only Buhari that can fight corruption in Nigeria.
Is that why you are supporting him?
Yes, I said it in an interview recently that if my father is contesting against Buhari, I will tell my father that I will vote against him. I will tell him that you are a banker, but I am not saying that you steal, but leave politics to Buhari. Buhari is clean. He is the only leader that had challenged his opponents to prove that he is corrupt and they could not. Babangida arrested Buhari and locked him up for 40 months.
His mother died while he was in detention. His brother died while he was in detention and Babangida was so sadistic and callous that he could not allow Buhari to go and give his last right as a Muslim. And when Babangida grudgingly released him, he asked him to tell the whole world about his corruption. He couldn’t. The other one was Obasanjo who set up Dr. Haroun Adamu’s commission to probe the Petroleum Trust Fund. After that, the probe failed to publish the report because it was so positive of Buhari. Buhari asked Obasanjo to publish the probe of PTF, but he couldn’t. I also challenged him, but he couldn’t. Buhari is the only leader that can say that. Buhari has no house in Abuja. When he is in Abuja, he either stays with his friend or in a hotel. Here is a man that had been a petroleum minister, head of state, governor of Eastern State, which is about six states today. My two books about him with foreward written by Abdulsalami Abubakar show that he is an extraordinary man. No one can match him in integrity. Anybody has the right to challenge him.
But I challenged Wole Soyinka and others to a public debate about Buhari but they could not. They are afraid of him because he will fight corruption. During Buhari’s time, the exchange rate was $1.5 to N1. The naira was stronger than dollar. Today it is N170 to $1. During Buhari’s time, it was N2 to one pound. Today, it is N260 to one pound. When Buhari was made governor, a lot of states were owing workers salary. Federal Government owed six months salary. Plateau State was owing nine months’ salary. From Plateau, I went to Dodan Barracks and within few months, we paid the whole arrears of salaries.
Buhari was so transparent that every month, Idiagbon would tell the country how much was made from petroleum; how much was spent and how much was going to be set aside. During his regime, we had over $50m in an extra account. Babangida came in and squandered it. I later asked my friend Abacha where they kept the money and he said ‘for arms.’ All the cries about $2.8 billion is a lie. No $2.8 billion was lost as some alleged. The Justice Irikefe Panel and Judicial Commission said no money like that existed. For 20 years, those who are crying have not been able to substantiate. Does it, therefore, mean that EFCC, ICPC are mere toothless bulldogs? Were they set up to work? EFCC was set up to haunt Obasanjo’s enemies.
I wrote a book: ‘Ethical Sanitiser or Inquisitor?’ Did EFCC ever arrest any of Obasanjo’s friends? It cannot work. And corruption could be easy to fight in Nigeria because the average Nigerian hates corruption. But the leaders like it because they gain from it. Why should a Nigerian senator earn more than American President? Is that not corruption for a Nigerian senator to earn more than Barack Obama? Without being immodest, I was earning less as a minister than as a professor. When I left Ibadan to be minister in 1984 under Buhari, my salary was N18,000 a year as a minister/consultant. Under Buhari, ministers were earning N16,000 a year. Under Buhari, the allowance a minister could spend was N200. If he spent above N200, he must account for it. They labelled Buhari an Islamic fundamentalist.
I said, ‘Don’t worry, I am a Christian fundamentalist.’ To be a fundamentalist is different from being an extremist, but they are so stupid that they don’t even know the difference. A fundamentalist is a great adherent of a religion. Buhari is a faithful believer in the Quran. I challenged the CAN President, Ayo Oritsejafor, whose plane was used to ferry the money. I said my father was a Catholic, but he did not steal money for over 100 years.
Ajayi Crowther and my father were contemporaries. Why should I follow somebody who is against my religion?
But the panel that probed Oritsejafor and Asari Dokubi has given them a clean bill of health…
They were cleared before they started. Asari Dokubo was living in my house. I used to give him pocket money. His mother and my mother are of the same father. The only result he has is O’Level. Two times he has been thrown out of university. He was thrown out of University of Port Harcourt and University of Calabar. Where did he get those billions? He got them from militancy. He said he wanted to protect pipelines and gave the militants billions of naira contracts. I’m surprised that Nigeria is not South Africa. You smuggled money, hard currency out of the country to their country without declaring it. In fact, that alone should have made Jonathan to be indicted. You smuggled money into a country two times and you were caught and you are saying you are going to punish South Africa. The money was smuggled into the country and it was caught. How are you going to do that? What if the APC decides not to choose him as the flag bearer?
He has said that. If APC decides they have a better person, he will work with the person. To him, it is not a matter of do-or-die.
But comparing Atiku Abubakar with Buhari, how comfortable will you be if Buhari is eventually not given the ticket?
I will feel very uncomfortable because Atiku knows very well he cannot with full conscience say that he can contest with Buhari. Politics is not just about talking and allocating money. You must have an ethical part of you. Let us wait because the APC has said that the election process will be broad-based. Not few who have money can go there and think they can bribe them. Those of us who believe in Buhari will work for him. We will pray for him not because he gives us anything, and by the grace of God, we shall get the ticket.
The God that loves Nigeria will choose a good leader for us.
What is the fate of Nigeria in the face of the socio-economic woes and insecurity occasioned by this Boko Haram insurgency?
That is the greatest indictment. I read it that America said they would not supply equipment to our Army again. That the ones supplied were not well used. The greater insurgency was Maitasine. Who stopped Maitasine? Jonathan said he knows those sponsoring and supporting Boko Haram but he has not arrested any one of them. At a certain time, they said it was Buhari. Jonathan can stop Boko Haram if he wants to. Boko Haram and Niger Delta militancy have something in common. The militants grew up to rig elections for the PDP. After rigging the elections, they dumped them and they became militants.
Whether it is true or not, Jonathan led a delegation to Chad with Ali Modu Sheriff. Jonathan said that he did not take him along, yet he took a photograph with Sheriff. Jonathan is not serious. He is an Ijaw man like me, but he is not serious. I can’t support him as an Ijaw man, but I can support him if he is doing well. As Commander-in-Chief, he could not go to Chibok and over 200 girls have been abducted for over six months. He invited the parents to Abuja and gave them money.
Is that the solution? I have never met Jonathan and I don’t want to meet him. If he is coming to my house, I will tell him I don’t want to see him. He is not serious in fighting the Boko Haram. When I was minister of petroleum, Jonathan was in secondary school. But if God has given you a position, you should thank God and do well. And you see, his wife is not helping the situation. She was busy fighting Governor Rotimi Amaechi. She had the audacity at a certain time to walk up to Amaechi where he was talking and snatched the microphone from the governor on the podium and went away. And nothing happened to her. That is bad. Anyone that cannot see what Amaechi has done in Rivers State is blinder than a bat. Nyesom Wike that she is sponsoring cannot win Rivers State. What do you make of Aminu Tambuwal’s defection and the withdrawal of his security aides? That is another case to shows that Jonathan is ignorant. If he is the President of Nigeria, he should know the Constitution of Nigeria.
Tambuwal has the right to move to any party, and they cannot remove him. PDP has not got the two-third majority in the House. They have less than 200 members. The reaction of Jonathan to Tambuwal’s defection was so childish, mean and ignorant – childish because he behaved like a child that was hurt. Why didn’t he just brush the issue aside and get on with his business? They have no power to do that. Which section of the Constitution empowers him to do that? By removing his security details, Jonathan has made Tambuwal to have more sympathy. I’m not a card-carrying member of the APC, but I support them.
To some people, you are this hard on Jonathan because he has not invited you to give you a certain advisory role where you can be getting some pecuniary benefit. Is that correct?
God forbid! If Jonathan pays me N1m a day, I will not work for him. What will he give me that will match my name? I am not for stomach infrastructure. God has given me what I want and I am satisfied. Taking money from Jonathan is like taking money from the devil. He can take all the money in the Nigerian mint, I will not take it. What position will he give that will attract me? A President that cannot pay N18, 000 minimum wage budgeted N2 billion for food in Aso Rock and for his deputy. Are they digesting rock? We have never had it this bad!
Are you optimistic that the 2015 elections will hold in Nigeria?
Only God knows tomorrow. I think it will hold, but it can be turbulent if there is election rigging in 2015. Nigerians should be careful. If there is rigging and people are not allowed to express themselves freely through the ballot, Jonathan himself will not be able to contain what will happen. He will not be able to come out of Aso Rock. He has for years been celebrating independence at Aso Rock. He could not do it at the Eagle Square. If the election is rigged, the heat would be too much for him to bear. If they don’t want peaceful change, they will have violent change. America has said that Nigeria will break up by 2015.
Nigeria will not break up. My prayer is that we should be together. Many people are working towards staying together, just as some are canvassing for a break-up. Whoever that does not allow peaceful and fair election in 2015 will not sleep. He would have murdered sleep.
Buhari recently said that there is nothing wrong if he chooses a Muslim like him to be his deputy. This has generated controversy.
Rev. Sunday Mbang, the former CAN President, said Christians should vote for Christians, and there was no cry over that then. The main issue is that they should bring concrete evidence that Buhari is corrupt, and not religious sentiments. No president can make Nigeria a Muslim or Christian state.
He will need 24 states to support him to do that and he cannot get that. If Buhari were a Christian and he is not disciplined, I would not have supported him. If Buhari is president, I tell you that the petrol price would come down within his first 100 days. He will not steal your money. The bottom line is that we should bring religion into politics and remove politics from religion. No religion will ask you to steal or kill. If the Muslim/ Muslim ticket is the will of God, let it be, and if Muslim/Christian ticket is His will, let it be also. But the beautiful thing about that is that Buhari has got the ticket. Like I said, that is my prayer. Buhari’s confidential secretary is a Christian; two of his cooks are Christians.
His senior security officer is a Christian, his second driver is a Christian; his office cook is a Christian. Tunde Idiagbon’s widow is a born again Christian. If it turns out like that of Babagana Kingibe to Moshood Abiola and if God wants it like that, so be it. The other time, they came up with another theory that Buhari is too old. He is not old. He is still young.
The President of Zimbabwe Robert Mugabe is older than Buhari. In 2006, he was 96 years old. Zuma of South Africa is also older than Buhari. So, what are those talking of politics of age talking about? Buhari will be 73 next year. I am older than him. The Constitution does not have an upper limit for age. They will not cross-check their facts before writing or talking. They have done everything to ensure that he does not contest but he is going to contest and by the grace of God, he will win. I don’t have Buhari’s phone number.
I don’t need it to talk for him because I am convinced of his integrity.
When the vehicle of Buhari was attacked recently, some people said he planned it for political reasons…
Those who said that were idiots. How will he want himself bombed or killed? It was Asari Dokubo that said it and he is a stupid boy, like I earlier told you. And Edwin Clark is also supporting Jonathan as if he could be more Ijaw than I am. At a certain time, I told him I am a full Ijaw man and that Clark is a ‘patch-patch’ Ijaw man. He sued me for libel asking for N800 million damages.
He went to Abuja but the day the case was to be called, he said he didn’t want to continue with the case again. He knew that I know that he is a combination of Ijaw, Urhobo and Itsekiri. I tell you, Clark is partly Urhobo, partly Itsekiri and partly Ijaw. I pray that God should give us good government. Nigerians should vote for their conscience. Anybody saying that there is no vacancy in Aso Rock is telling us that the election will be rigged.
Some people are saying that Buhari is a serial loser and that he will still lose the 2015 election…
Buhari has never lost election.Buhari was serially rigged out. He has never lost any transition election in Nigeria. When he went to the Supreme Court with Umaru Yar’Adua, three judges said Buhari was right; three said Yar’Adua was right. I hope he will not also be rigged out this time. If there is rigging this time, they can as well pack their things and go to Chad.

Source: New Telegraph

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