The 18th Sultan of Sokoto, His Eminence Alhaji Ibrahim Dasuki, wrote a booklet on peaceful coexistence in 1991, copies of which were sent to the presidency and some governors to take a cue on how to restore peace in Nigeria. In this interview with journalists in Kaduna, Dasuki talks about the northern governors’ approach to security, solution to insecurity and corruption, as well as the need for justice and transparent leadership. ABDULRAHEEM AODU was there
On security
I have this (booklet) since 1991. Three things motivated me (to write it): one, for Muslims and Christians to meet and discuss possible areas worrying them. Two, that leadership emerges through that because when they meet, they discuss whatever concerns them and take decision, and forward same to a higher meeting. It is intra-state, regional and then national. If you cannot solve those problems at the intra-state level, you appoint your own representatives. I hope by this method, honest and competent leadership will emerge, committed leadership from the intra-state, the community, to regional and even to national level. Three, I think there is need for the emirs and chiefs to concentrate on peacekeeping because there is no question ofJangali now or Haraji (cattle tax and levy). The courts, the prisons and the ‘Yan Doka’ (Native Police) have been taken away from them, but they have power to intervene and keep the information system working. Whoever does wrong or right, they know because people still respect them. By keeping them busy, they will be kept informed, they will be busy helping the country. So let them be involved in peacekeeping, let leadership emerge, honest, competent leadership and let Muslims and Christians meet together and discuss. In so doing, we shall live in peace and not in pieces.
The solution now remains with the leaders. There is no point to go and appoint another committee of 44. Is it? I don’t think they can find anything better than what we did because that’s about 21 years ago, 1991, was the time we did it but it is still relevant because it is an honest work. Nobody, no government, told us to do it, it was on our own. About 34 of us, we met here in Kaduna. Now you appoint people and pay them a lot of allowances, some of them sitting or for not sitting. Ours was done by honest leadership because we felt we had a responsibility to move the whole thing forward. This is what we think: the leader should be up and doing, and not sit down, discuss, argue and go to court, no. Settle things as they come.
Your book and current realities
You are talking about what is happening now. This touches on many aspects, including justice, leadership. In fact, the opening of this booklet says greatness is not achieved by proclamation but by hard work, honesty and transparency. If we have this in the nation, things will be all right. Justice is very important. They said the dynasty can deal with unbelief but not with injustice. Justice should be everywhere and there must be fairness. I’m acquainted with what is happening in the UK, everyone is entitled to justice and honesty there. They are honest in their society. We have to do justice to ourselves and not only the government. So the question of sophistication in injustice does not arise, it is either unjust or just and once you do justice, you will find that everything will be all right.
Corruption and way out
The press has a lot to do because when they listen to the radio in the rural areas, they believe in it, so tell them the truth. The press is not just writing news, reporting. But it must be honest news, dedicated news, say whatever is right. I was a journalist at one time, 1945 to 1953, so I have some ideas of how a journalist should behave, because you have enormous powers.
The question is who will take action? The courts are corrupt… you buy your justice. We are in a mess. Look at small countries, you go outside with your green passport, you see everybody passing but when they see you they say, “Go this way”. Every Nigerian now, they think he is a suspect for money laundering. Look at this man (James Ibori), now he is in UK, he was set free in Nigeria but in UK he was jailed for years. Unfortunately, in this country today, the bigger the crime the lesser the punishment.
Dialogue with Boko Haram
First of all, it is justice that must be pursued, because it is injustice that brought about Boko Haram. In our days, we were just in whatever we did. You found Christians and Muslims living together. There was the house of Sardauna before Sultan Bello Mosque, which is next to Michael Audu Buba’s house and everyone was on his own, working. Also, we as civil servants could tell our ministers no when the minister erred. There was a time when my minister asked me to write a memorandum regarding something, to which I said, “No, Minister, this is wrong.” My minister said, “Do it”. I said, “No, it is wrong. If you like you can prepare your own memorandum and we go to the council.”
At that time, I could go to the council and defend my views. He disagreed but what he wanted me to do was not in his required mandate. He and his very powerful party secretary called me and I repeated the same. I said it was wrong because such cases, if we start here, is going to be total failure. They went to the Premier and they called me. I repeated the same thing. I said, “Honourable Premier, this is wrong. I knew it was wrong therefore, I wouldn’t advise that we do it. Being the head of government if you insist, of course, I will do it because I swore my allegiance, my loyalty, to the service, not you.” He said, “No, I will not instruct you or any civil servant to do anything against his conviction.”
Now compare it to what we have today. That is why I said civil service is not civil. We have to make sure there is free hand. We used to be accounting officers as civil servants. Now the governor is the accounting officer. He is a politician, let him shout and say what he wants but the civil servant works behind the scene.
Then at Lugard Hall, whenever we sent questions to our minister, he re-sent them and we gave answers ourselves.
All these are part of justice. That is what we are lacking today. How we came about it is a long story. I’m sorry to say because we are in a mess, the whole country.
Look at the wealth we have in this country. I never knew what a trillion was until recently I asked someone to write it for me before I understood it. I know about billion, but trillion, somebody had to write and say you put 12 zeros.
The country is full of riches but the people are terribly poor. Small countries that are poorer than us live better. You go to Niger Republic here, now they are selling oil. Mismanagement and injustice, unless we try to be just and each one plays his own part.
The first step is to live in peace. Unless you have that, I’m sorry Boko Haram will continue to fight. And some of them, I understand, are not even Boko Haram. When they started, I was not in the country but I heard that their leader was caught and was executed without even taking his statement. That was injustice and I understand the man who did it is still moving around. He is within us here. So what kind of justice is that?
I know we had three stages; upper class, middle class and lower class. Now, we have two classes, you are either up or down and I understand that Nigerians now live on $1 a day (N160), with all the money that we have. I was reading that someone collected people’s pension, N2 billion, in his house, cash.
Look at the oil subsidy, what is happening now? This money had gone, billions and trillions. Why? We have to sit down and give justice to the country, to everybody, not only to kings and ministers. Give it to the poorest man, that is how justice should be, else God will go on punishing us for what we do.
It is a pity we haven’t even got our own airline, have we? Look at us, giant in the sun! Yes, giant at one time, but sleeping giant. I was with the man who recently became President of Ghana. Last year I called on him and I was discussing with him. I think he was telling me that his salary was $3,000 or $2,000 a month. Now, how much are we paying our leaders, our lawmakers? That is confusion. Everywhere there are first ladies. We have one first lady, then 36 first ladies and we have 774 first ladies! I understand they have even wardrobe allowance.
All this is a mess. So you have to correct it. It is your own responsibility. This is your Nigeria. I’ve done my part when I was there. From here, I just go to the mosque and come back, otherwise I have no business with anybody.
Requests for the book
The Presidency came and requested copies. They said the President would like to have a look at it and I gave them copies. Here in Kaduna, I gave it to the governor and he became interested too. I understand they have even constituted a committee, although it is completely different from mine, a peace and reconciliation committee. You see, it is the same thing because Emir of Zazzau was also one of the three emirs from the Northern side when we decided this thing in 1991. We don’t want any conflict, we want to live in peace. I gave a copy to the governor and I think he is working on it. In addition, I sent 10 copies to each of them. Nobody responded.
State police
I was Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Local Government of the entire Northern Nigeria for three years and I know the working of police. The leadership is so bad and I can give example of allocation to local government. I headed a committee and we found out that if each governor was from a different side with the chairman of a local government, they starved that area of funds, so we recommended that the amount should be paid directly to local governments. The government, of course, can put monitoring units, that’s why the federal government started giving money directly to the local governments. Now, when these gentlemen came, the representatives of elected government, they came with an idea of Joint Account, they pooled it together and there are some chairmen when they come to ask them for money, they say they don’t have. Why? “They call us to sign and we go away.” Why do you sign? “If we refuse to sign they will sack us.”
If we have any problem now it is the governors. Unfortunately, they are supposed to lead but I doubt it at the rate we are going. It is time now that they give way to the newbreed because the way they are doing… a governor taking his wife and 30 other people to Mecca at our own expense, why? And who told him so? Allah instructed him to go once in a life time if he has money to go. He should use his wealth if he has enough to leave for his family, but not from the treasury. He swore to protect the country without fear or favour. But is that what we are having today? Why? In fact, I’m sorry to say we are in a mess and it’s a pity.
State police will not help. If the governor is taking the local government chairman’s money, what happens when he got coercion power? Without coercion power now what is happening to local government funds? So you give them coercion power, you will see.
Son’s appointment as National Security Adviser
How? Not because he is my son…. Did I give him the job? No. He was given the job because that is his line of training and I think we’ve started seeing result, haven’t we? Somebody is talking about dialogue. It is very important and unless you approach them, you don’t know who they are. So connecting me and my son are two complete different things. He is a mature person and married, with his children. They gave him the post because that is his own training. His masters degree is on security aspect. I’m not defending him but you see, I’m glad now I can leave confidently to the mosque and back without fear of being shot.
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