Festus Egwarewa Adeniyi Keyamo, fiery lawyer and social crusader, 42, does not care whose horse is gored when analysing issues in the polity. The Bendel State University, (now Ambrose Alii University, Ekpoma) graduate has been involved in activism since his school days, and he has had several causes to confront the high and mighty over corrupt practices in the country.
Keyamo is one of the external prosecutors for the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, (EFCC). From 1999 to 2003, he was in the thick of the battle to expose ex-Governor Bola Tinubu over his alleged falsification of certificates, a matter he pursued all the way to the Supreme Court and lost on "technical grounds ".
He is currently involved in the alleged forged certificates scandal of the Comptroller-General of Customs, AlhajiAbdullahiDiklco. In this interview with BODE ODESEYE, Keyamo minces no words as he critically analyses issues bordering on the unity of the country and more.
WHAT would you proffer as solution to the current security challenges in the country?
The Boko Haram issue is political. There was a pre-Var'Adua Boko Haram and there is apost Yar'AduaBoko Haram. The Boko Haram of pre-Yar'Adua is not the Boko Haram of today. The Yar'Adua Boko Haram was the sect that was fighting the police for interrupting his activities. The post-YarAdua Boko Haram is the one fighting the government and aiming at destabilising the government.
The Boko Haram issue is political. There was a pre-Var'Adua Boko Haram and there is apost Yar'AduaBoko Haram. The Boko Haram of pre-Yar'Adua is not the Boko Haram of today. The Yar'Adua Boko Haram was the sect that was fighting the police for interrupting his activities. The post-YarAdua Boko Haram is the one fighting the government and aiming at destabilising the government.
That is the political Boko Haram. That is the one giving Jonathan conditions. Those who are saying it is not political because it started before Yar'Adua are missing the point to the extent that Boko Haram has changed its aims, objectives and tactics by bombing government buildings and aiming at government officials. That didn't happen in pre-Yar'Adua Boko Haram.
They are now bombing churches to instigate religious crisis in the country. So the solution must go back to politics. We have accepted for now that Nigeria is a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic country. Nobody is preaching one Nigeria. That is what we seem to have accepted.
Why do I say so ? Even the Eoliticians aspire into office ased on zoning. Why should they call for zoning "because by doing so, they are preaching ethnicity. Elections should be free for all. After getting into office based on ethnic platform, they now turn around to say one Nigeria. They ought to be called "Ethnic Champions" because they get into
I imminence through being eaders of their ethnic groups.
I imminence through being eaders of their ethnic groups.
So nobody should tell me "One Nigeria" when he has negotiated his way into office through ethnicity. If we have accepted that this is the state of things, we must therefore sit down and allocate offices by constitution. That is what Boko Haram wants to hear and that is what will end Boko Haram. If it is four, five or six years for presidency as the case may be, and the way it will rotate, it should be stated clearly in the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. The ofl ice of the Secretary General of the United Nations is even zoned. Is Nigeria better that the United Nations? At a point, Africa and Asia protested that it shouldn't always be for the citizens of the United States and Europe. They now said okay. They gave it to Koffi Annan, an African. After Koffi Annan, it went to Asian. After Asia, it went to South America and then back to Europe.
That is the position in the United Nations, and that is the way it should be in Nigeria. If they don't want to do that, then they should go back to the original concept of true federalism by removing power from the center. They cannot make the center as attractive as it is and expect peace to reign without zoning. It is not possible. Everything is in Abuja. So, if they don't want to zone, the country must go back to true federalism. The zoning should state clearly the region or ethnic group that will be in power for a certain period of time and the constitution should be clear on what happens to the vice president when the president dies in office as in the case of Yar'Adua. It should state that the vice president should conduct an election within three months for the next president to come in.
Some people think we are heroes now because a Niger Delta man is the president. I am not stupid to buy that kind of argument, even though I am a Warn boy, because people are not seemg beyond then- noses. What happens when Jonathan's tenure is over?
Where do we start from? Do you think we will have the moral right to go back to the creeks and demand for resource controi?They will say shut up! When Jonathan was in power, did he control the resources? Did he amend the constitution? Did you preach good governance when he was there? Every point in time, we must not lose our focus in this country. We must preach good governance and service to the people at all times, irrespective of whoever is in power. If we know we can't do without zoning, then let us amend our constitution quietly and put our tails between our legs.
This is the reality in this country. I think we don't have more than four or five countries in the world that has the kind of mixture we have. 250 ethnic groups in this country. Nigeria is very unique and peculiar and we must agree on that. We must adopt a system that is suitable for us.
How do you see the proposed Sovereign National Conference being advocated?
It is at the national conference that we can agree on this power sharing, and if we cannot agree, we will say, okay, do we run a loose confederation? If I get my allocation as the governor of a Yoruba state, I can say I don't want to build schools; this is what I want to do. The Igbo governor can invest the money in building markets for his people to trade. The Hausa governor can say I want to promote farming. Different people with different objectives. Each state can then develop at its own pace.
It is at the national conference that we can agree on this power sharing, and if we cannot agree, we will say, okay, do we run a loose confederation? If I get my allocation as the governor of a Yoruba state, I can say I don't want to build schools; this is what I want to do. The Igbo governor can invest the money in building markets for his people to trade. The Hausa governor can say I want to promote farming. Different people with different objectives. Each state can then develop at its own pace.
It has been over a year since President Jonathan came into power. What is your assessment of his administration?
It has been below expectation, no doubt about that. The voice of the people is the voice of God. Unfortunately, the people expected too much from him. They thought Jonathan is an outsider who took over government and they had been craving for an outsider to take over the government. They wanted somebody who was not part of them. A real breath of fresh air. The mistake people made was that there was a feud within the cabal. Jonathan was part of the cabal. Unfortunately the masses took sides with one part of the cabal that was fighting the other part.
It has been below expectation, no doubt about that. The voice of the people is the voice of God. Unfortunately, the people expected too much from him. They thought Jonathan is an outsider who took over government and they had been craving for an outsider to take over the government. They wanted somebody who was not part of them. A real breath of fresh air. The mistake people made was that there was a feud within the cabal. Jonathan was part of the cabal. Unfortunately the masses took sides with one part of the cabal that was fighting the other part.
They mistook the side they supported as being for the down-trodden. You cannot say you are a breath of fresh air when you are part of the ruling party and you have held highest offices in the land since 1999. How are you a breath of fresh air? Where are you coming from? You are corning from within the bowel of PDP. You were a deputy governor, then governor, vice president and now Eresident. He has always een part of them and the masses thought he is an outsider. That is the mistake they made. They expected too much from him.
But he still has over two years left. Don't you think he can correct this impression before the end of his tenure?
That is what we thought about Obasanjo; Obasanjo, with all his experience, Eedigree as former military eadof state, strength of character and the key appointments he made in office did not succeed in eight years. Now, Jonathan surrounds himself with charlatans who call themselves ministers.
That is what we thought about Obasanjo; Obasanjo, with all his experience, Eedigree as former military eadof state, strength of character and the key appointments he made in office did not succeed in eight years. Now, Jonathan surrounds himself with charlatans who call themselves ministers.
Charlatans and political jobbers. Some of them have nothing to do in their states. Their names were just forwarded to become ministers. Some of them are not successful in their various areas of endeavours. They became ministers and people expect them to run a successful administration. That is the beginning of his failure.
What would be your advice to him?
He should make a change of people around him. He should not choose political jobbers to do the joo. Most people in that cabinet are mere political appointees. People just forwarded names to him to compensate them for the elections they ran. He has to drop them and say I have compensated you enough; many of them have spent one year now. He should tell them that they have done enough and thank them and be ready to run a
good government till 2015. [e should choose technocrats. That is the way to start.
He should make a change of people around him. He should not choose political jobbers to do the joo. Most people in that cabinet are mere political appointees. People just forwarded names to him to compensate them for the elections they ran. He has to drop them and say I have compensated you enough; many of them have spent one year now. He should tell them that they have done enough and thank them and be ready to run a
good government till 2015. [e should choose technocrats. That is the way to start.
Going by what you have said, the system seems to be so corrupt. Why is this in Nigeria?
It is a vicious spiral. Corruption breeds corruption, and there is no halt in the whole process. It has gone to the root of our system. The very foundation is corrupt. When people in government steal, and you join them, there is no way you will not toe the line unless you have a strong character and conviction. The head is rotten, and it is not ready to fight corruption honestly. Look at (Abdullahi) Dikko for instance. He is the head of customs and he knows he has forged certificates. The other day, I met Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (finance minister), I told her the same thing. I told her Ngozi, you are presiding over a parastatal whose head forged all his certificates. Now, it is a moral burden because the man is begging everybody giving them containers in order to survive in office. How can you fight corruption? She knows all she needs to do is to call him and say, "Can I see your certificates? Let me see the originals." That's all it takes to confirm their authenticity. That's all.
It is a vicious spiral. Corruption breeds corruption, and there is no halt in the whole process. It has gone to the root of our system. The very foundation is corrupt. When people in government steal, and you join them, there is no way you will not toe the line unless you have a strong character and conviction. The head is rotten, and it is not ready to fight corruption honestly. Look at (Abdullahi) Dikko for instance. He is the head of customs and he knows he has forged certificates. The other day, I met Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (finance minister), I told her the same thing. I told her Ngozi, you are presiding over a parastatal whose head forged all his certificates. Now, it is a moral burden because the man is begging everybody giving them containers in order to survive in office. How can you fight corruption? She knows all she needs to do is to call him and say, "Can I see your certificates? Let me see the originals." That's all it takes to confirm their authenticity. That's all.
So nobody has taken any action since that encounter?
Nobody! And you are now preaching to me that I should be honest in my dealings, while we see what you do as the head.
Nobody! And you are now preaching to me that I should be honest in my dealings, while we see what you do as the head.
What is your take on the new N5,000 notes being introduced by the Central Bank of Nigeria?
It is going to breed corruption. It is going to bring inflation. It is going to further impoverish the masses because if we have any high denomination like that, people normally equates them to what is available in the market. For instance, something that is supposed to cost N12 will cost N20 because there is no change. There are many things like that in the market, but you will not know. So, it brings inflation.
It is going to breed corruption. It is going to bring inflation. It is going to further impoverish the masses because if we have any high denomination like that, people normally equates them to what is available in the market. For instance, something that is supposed to cost N12 will cost N20 because there is no change. There are many things like that in the market, but you will not know. So, it brings inflation.
There are a lot of people who still earn N10,000 a month in the rural areas. If you pay a worker and give him two notes of N5,000, what happens if he loses one note? He will just drop dead. Most of these things are done to promote selfish interests. Why not print N2,000 notes? We graduated from N100 notes to N200, then N500 and later Nl 000. If it is N2,000, it will not attract much opposition. When you jump from N1,000 to N5.000, that is 500% increase in the unit of naira.
Do you have a political ambition?
For now, I am really considering my options.
For now, I am really considering my options.
Have you been approached by any political party?
I don t like talking like the politicians who say they are pressurised to run. That is a lie. First of all, you must convince yourself you can do it. Nobody puts pressure on you as a politician. You are not the only one in the country. There are hundreds of people who are willing to serve. So, you must convince yourself that you are willing to serve. I am still thinking about whether I should make useful contributions to my country. You know why? Of all the radicals in this country, I am the only one who has not contested a political office. I am the only one that doesn't belong to any political party.
I don t like talking like the politicians who say they are pressurised to run. That is a lie. First of all, you must convince yourself you can do it. Nobody puts pressure on you as a politician. You are not the only one in the country. There are hundreds of people who are willing to serve. So, you must convince yourself that you are willing to serve. I am still thinking about whether I should make useful contributions to my country. You know why? Of all the radicals in this country, I am the only one who has not contested a political office. I am the only one that doesn't belong to any political party.
How would you access the post-Ribadu EFCC?
The fact that EFCC is still being controlled by the Presidency makes everything you do as the Chairman of EFCC subject to the control of the Presidency. It was the same during Ribadu era, but people thought otherwise. You cannot do anything that is opposed to the wish of the President. It is impossible. That is the truth. If you praise or condemn the Chairman of EFCC, he or she is just acting according to the instructions from the Presidency, to the extent that EFCC as it is, is under political control as a result of the appointment and removal of the Chairman. For us to truly access the capacity of the Chairman, we must remove the political control and give him 10 years to operate. During that time, nobody can sack him except in proven cases of corruption and ne can only be investigated by the judiciary, not the politicians. When you make that kind of law, then it can really affect the performance of the Chairman.
The fact that EFCC is still being controlled by the Presidency makes everything you do as the Chairman of EFCC subject to the control of the Presidency. It was the same during Ribadu era, but people thought otherwise. You cannot do anything that is opposed to the wish of the President. It is impossible. That is the truth. If you praise or condemn the Chairman of EFCC, he or she is just acting according to the instructions from the Presidency, to the extent that EFCC as it is, is under political control as a result of the appointment and removal of the Chairman. For us to truly access the capacity of the Chairman, we must remove the political control and give him 10 years to operate. During that time, nobody can sack him except in proven cases of corruption and ne can only be investigated by the judiciary, not the politicians. When you make that kind of law, then it can really affect the performance of the Chairman.
What was your growing up days like?
I grew up as a Jehovah witness and that means I grew up in a very disciplined home. I was born and bred in Ughelli, near Warri. I am an Uvwie boy. I grew up preaching from house to house as early as 6am.I know the Bible like the back of my hands. My parents also come from families of Jehovah witnesses. They do not spare the rod when it comes to discipline. There was a time my mother gave me a dirty slap because I used a left hand to greet an elder when I was small. That day, it looked like a sin had been committed.
I grew up as a Jehovah witness and that means I grew up in a very disciplined home. I was born and bred in Ughelli, near Warri. I am an Uvwie boy. I grew up preaching from house to house as early as 6am.I know the Bible like the back of my hands. My parents also come from families of Jehovah witnesses. They do not spare the rod when it comes to discipline. There was a time my mother gave me a dirty slap because I used a left hand to greet an elder when I was small. That day, it looked like a sin had been committed.
What can you remember about your school days?
I was just intellectually restless, so I had a way of causing my own problems. I put teachers under a lot of pressure. They all acknowledged that I kept probing them. I kept asking questions beyond my age. I remember one day in class, I was asking my primary school teacher so many questions and she said she was going to report me to the principal because I was not allowing her to go by her schedule. So, she said I was going to teach the class on that day. she dropped the chalk and walked out of the class.
I was just intellectually restless, so I had a way of causing my own problems. I put teachers under a lot of pressure. They all acknowledged that I kept probing them. I kept asking questions beyond my age. I remember one day in class, I was asking my primary school teacher so many questions and she said she was going to report me to the principal because I was not allowing her to go by her schedule. So, she said I was going to teach the class on that day. she dropped the chalk and walked out of the class.
Before she came back. I carried a chair to the black board and started teaching the class Arithmetic. When she came back and saw me, she started laughing and said, "Festus Keyamo, please come down from that chair!" I was intellectually restless. My mates in the university will tell you. I always sat at the back of the class and my hand was always going up every five minutes to ask questions. I agitated my mates. I was not a rascally person. I was not a bully, I was just an intellectually restless young man.
Is that what metamorphosed into activism?
You don't become who you are not. Some people say it is because I workea with Gani (Fawehinmi), but more than 300 lawyers have passed through Ganij why are all of them not radical? If it is by whom you work with, all of them should be radical. It is not true that you have to work with anybody to become somebody. There must be innate qualities in you that can be guided by working with somebody. It orings out latent Fotentials in you. You just say can do this too. That is what happened in my own case.
You don't become who you are not. Some people say it is because I workea with Gani (Fawehinmi), but more than 300 lawyers have passed through Ganij why are all of them not radical? If it is by whom you work with, all of them should be radical. It is not true that you have to work with anybody to become somebody. There must be innate qualities in you that can be guided by working with somebody. It orings out latent Fotentials in you. You just say can do this too. That is what happened in my own case.
As an activist and a firebrand lawyer, have you experienced any form of intimidation?
Severally. Look at the controversial cases I have done. Threat messages come in droves, but I refused to be intimidated. The other day, one man called me and threatened me on phone. He said I should drop a case or else he would kill me. I told him he must be very stupid. If you want to kill somebody, you don't call him and tell him. You just kill him. By calling me, it shows you are a coward. I told him I would be at a public place at so so time, that he should meet me there the next day, and I went there, I sat down and I was eating. After two hours, nobody showed up and I walked out.
Severally. Look at the controversial cases I have done. Threat messages come in droves, but I refused to be intimidated. The other day, one man called me and threatened me on phone. He said I should drop a case or else he would kill me. I told him he must be very stupid. If you want to kill somebody, you don't call him and tell him. You just kill him. By calling me, it shows you are a coward. I told him I would be at a public place at so so time, that he should meet me there the next day, and I went there, I sat down and I was eating. After two hours, nobody showed up and I walked out.
Were you not afraid he might make good his threat?
No, because he was a coward. It tells you life belongs to God. It was also to re-convince myself that I am ready for what I am doing. I am ready to lay down my life for what I am doing, so I cannot be hiding and running away.
No, because he was a coward. It tells you life belongs to God. It was also to re-convince myself that I am ready for what I am doing. I am ready to lay down my life for what I am doing, so I cannot be hiding and running away.
What is your advice to the Nigerian youths?
Tney should imbibe the virtues of hard work, honesty and perseverance. They should not think of riding a car unless it comes naturally. The problem we have today is that the youths want to drive the best of cars. It is not possible without stealing and doing something funny. You cant be a young graduate with a normal salary and do that, except your parents support you. The parents should not even do that.
Tney should imbibe the virtues of hard work, honesty and perseverance. They should not think of riding a car unless it comes naturally. The problem we have today is that the youths want to drive the best of cars. It is not possible without stealing and doing something funny. You cant be a young graduate with a normal salary and do that, except your parents support you. The parents should not even do that.
They should allow their children to learn the ropes. I bought my "Smoking Joe" seven years after leaving the university. You know the kind of car you would drive and smoke would fill everywhere? And I was proud I had a car. The mechanic became my best friend. He was always with me everyday, repairing it! My pair of shoes were always going to the shoemaker because it was always opening. That was the situation, but I persevered.
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